Grunge Forum

Ehhh

Agruement...destroyed

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I can see that...but i think you have to be a girl...and as far as i know there wasnt many girly members in nirvana hehe

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Stream Tripods new (and old) album here: http://open.spotify.com/album/5Pjx4VttifUBYb5U9RbW26

but you gotta love em

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Then that means that riot grrl actually is a distinction based on sex, which is what they were saying in the first place.

I actually don't care, if you want to change it, no problem, but for me it's all about the music and not the label, so... I'm not gonna vote, because of the reason I mentioned (I don't care).

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Oh dear. Now this is a thread that should be locked because it's a discussion that can and probably will not be solved. Riot Grrrl is as sexist as "female-fronted grunge bands" because they both put the focus on gender aspects. If you want a solution, make a section for each and every single band that is publically deemed worthy of it, and kill that stupid discussion for good.

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"Buy a car, buy a steak. Buy a baseball glove, our son's in the League." ("Car Buying Time", Little Bears from Bangkok)
Toute frelore bi got.

I think you're wrong on every point you've made.

any kind of sexism is wrong though.

the Suffregettes suffered so they could be treated as equals NOT so they could be treated better.

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We didn't fall in love incredibly fast, everyone else just falls in love incredibly slow

Schneider=Dan=MY boyfriend.since 6th January 2012.we live together.in Cardiff

Hungry?

What midandry themes are you talking about? I'm not an expert on female grunge bands since the only ones I listen to are Hole and Babes in Toyland, but I don't see any anti-male messages in them. I see anti-rape and stuff like that, but I don't think anyone would ever say that anti-rape is anti male. And I'm sorry I didn't reply to your post, but it was too long and I didn't want to have to respond to all your points because it takes me long enough to write a short message. I can try to respond, but it'll probably take me two weeks.

I don't think Nirvana is a riot grrl band either. They just fit your previous criteria. We should either merge "Female Grunge" sections with "other bands" or keep it "Female Grunge" because at least it's logical and at least it's accurate. It's a pure and simple fact that most of the bands we talk about in this board are not and never were riot grrl bands, and riot grrl was a different thing. I mean, read about the movement and you'll see that. I haven't read that much, but I know the basics.

The problem with the term riot grrl to me is that it basically says about women that they can never play with the big boys. That there has to be some totally different, totally arbitrary new name for a movement that's extremely similar to or basically the same as the male movement. There's no reason for it. That's why it's sexist. It doesn't matter if there were men in these bands (there were very few), it's the perception that matters. And the reason these bands are ghettoed is because they either involve females or have female-related themes. And really, none of that applies to Hole or Babes in Toyland or L7, which are the ones I've listened to mostly. Hole's first album had basically the same exact themes as Nevermind did, and their second album, which is way more stereotypically grunge, was the one that more female-related themes. And I don't think any of Babes stuff was really that sex specific.

Like I tried to put it, anything putting the focus strictly on sex is ultimately sexist. If you'd call a certain musical movement "Angry White Boy Rock" it would be sexist as well. And I don't think discussions are bad, Adam, I just think this one is pointless because we're not getting anywhere as far as I can see. (I don't read every post thoroughly though, so it might also be me )

So my proposition would be: If you want to avoid the sexism debate, lose the complete section and make a thread for every band, be its members male, female or both (or transgender or whatever), as soon as enough people think it's necessary.

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"Buy a car, buy a steak. Buy a baseball glove, our son's in the League." ("Car Buying Time", Little Bears from Bangkok)
Toute frelore bi got.

Yeah, exactly, that's a point that most of the people seem to forget. I don't want to get treated better, because then I feel guilty.

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Yeah, but Babes in Toyland weren't influenced by riot grrl, they influenced it. That would be like calling Pearl Jam post-grunge.

Most reported rapes are perpetrated by men, so it's not sexist at all, it's reflecting reality. That's like saying it's sexist to say that most women in the 50's stayed at home with the children. It's not sexist to say that it was that way, it's sexist to say that it's supposed to be that way.

Yeah, so why do you feel the need to put them in their own ghetto? If they can play with the big boys, then they should be called punk or grunge just like the big boys were.

Most of your post actually agrees with the points I've made. Almost all the bands you talked about were riot grrl bands. I still don't like the term, but some of them even called themselves that. What you don't understand is that riot grrl and female grunge were different things. You keep trying to lump bands like L7 and Babes in Toyland in with that group, and your highlight of the themes of real riot grll bands make it even more clear that the non-riot grrl bands were not riot grrl.

If you still don't understand why it's sexist to create a whole new genre that highlights the fact that women can't be in the same movement as men, then there's nothing anyone can do to help you.

Yeah, I was going to reply but that fact that you keep saying I haven't read your posts pisses me off so I'm not even going to bother. It's way too much work and not enough reward.