Was Kurt holding Dave back?

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Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by boxcar »

Do you think perhaps being in a band with someone like Kurt was holding Dave back? Obviously he had the talent to do whatever he wanted but maybe needed Nirvana to propel him up the ladder? Look at the lyrics to "Alone and Easy Target" written while Nirvana were still a band, I think.
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by Grunge_Chick »

Interesting question. You know, over the years I have come to respect Dave in so many ways. Frankly I think that if Kurt wouldn't have died Dave would have left. He seems to be the type of musician who needs to continue to create and explore. I have no doubt that he would have gone on to other things eventually. Nirvana propelled him into the spotlight where he was a recognized drummer and without Nirvana who knows if he would have been noticed. With that said, I think Kurt liked having control of the band and likely wasn't easy for the other members to expand beyond their instrument, at least in the beginning. Towards the end Kurt seemed to be more open and even inviting of contributions from others. Did Kurt hold Dave back? No I don't really think he did but I can see how it may have appeared and felt that way at times.
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by boxcar »

Grunge_Chick wrote:Interesting question. You know, over the years I have come to respect Dave in so many ways. Frankly I think that if Kurt wouldn't have died Dave would have left. He seems to be the type of musician who needs to continue to create and explore. I have no doubt that he would have gone on to other things eventually. Nirvana propelled him into the spotlight where he was a recognized drummer and without Nirvana who knows if he would have been noticed. With that said, I think Kurt liked having control of the band and likely wasn't easy for the other members to expand beyond their instrument, at least in the beginning. Towards the end Kurt seemed to be more open and even inviting of contributions from others. Did Kurt hold Dave back? No I don't really think he did but I can see how it may have appeared and felt that way at times.
Wow... you pretty much put into words the way I think about it too. 8)
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by TGPlayer1 »

According to the man himself, he didn't want to intrude as the new guy, because he knew that Kurt was the man, and he felt like it wasn't his place to come in and just say "here's a song i wrote", which is why he released that acoustic demo tape under a pseudonym. It was only during the writing of In Utero that Kurt really said that he wanted him to contribute, although he has some credits on Nevermind, and he wrote a lot more stuff. Plus towards the end of their career they were more or less done for anyway and whilst waiting for Kurt to show up to record in Jan 94, Dave and Krist recorded some stuff that Dave wrote, a lot of which became the FF debut. So i don't think so either, i think he understood his position in the band and would rather do that than not be the drummer in Nirvana, because, let's be honest, nobody would give that up would they?
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by KristinNirvana »

Hm, I don't know. I don't think I'd say so, though recently I've been thinking that him being a frontman has held him back from his drumming abilities, because that whole Paul McCartney thing made me remember how good he is and how he's such an animal at the drums, though it's not like he can't do both, but he should play the drums more. Yeah if Nirvana had stayed together, I think he definitely would have written more, as I've seen interviews with Kurt saying how much he loved that Dave wrote Scentless Apprentice, and how it took all this pressure off of him, and he did want him to write more, and I've also heard that in the beginning he felt uncomfortable with taking songs he wrote to Kurt, but he was relatively knew, I mean Nirvana only had less than 3 years of success, so he was probably just getting used to it and more comfortable with them and with writing. He probably would have ended up with some of the Foos songs or similar songs he wrote being contributed in Nirvana. The timing seemed all off for that band. They got successful so fast, and Kurt died so fast, and they only had 2 albums while they were huge. If they would have stayed together if Kurt hadn't of died, they could have done a lot more. I bet Pat would have really joined the band as well. Things could have changed. So I guess I'm saying it might not have been Kurt as much as the timing off when everything went down, and he would have ended up writing more anyway.
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by sadie »

I remember him saying that "Why change something that's already perfect" or something like that when asked if he wanted to do more in Nirvana (writing songs etc). He knew it was Kurt's band. And they say he gave away his own demo in the days of Nirvana, and I completely understand that. It must be hard to be on a band with someone like Kurt. Kurt didn't hold Dave back, but the idea of a being in a band with a guy like Kurt held him back. If you see what I mean?

And I believe that if Kurt hadn't died, Nirvana would have broken up in a bit.
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by upchuck854 »

Interesting point about Alone + Easy Target. I love that album and that song but never felt to look at the lyrics til now and I can see the meaning. Although that could really apply to any band he was in, Nirvana or Pre-Nirvana. I would have to think that he would have left especially seeing that he attempted to leave in 1993 according to his tell all book. Myself being a musician in multiple bands with drug habits and ongoing issues, times come when you say, "Why am I doing this still?" I'm sure Dave has been aware of his musical talents all his life and knowing that he could do anything he set his mind to, it just really helped that he was in a "legendary" band.
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by Gigglesx0 »

In my personal opinion, I'd say no. Kurt didn't hold Dave back. Even if he did, perhaps it was unintentional. Dave knew exactly where he stood coming into Nirvana, and it gave him the spot light he needed. I believe if Kurt would have stayed alive, Dave would have still been in the band until it died out (Which Kurt planned on in conspiracy.) But I do think he would have considered a solo career and pursued it as well, as he is doing now. I don't think Kurt really held him back, in my opinion I think he sort of kick-started Dave into his career. But either way, they're both amazing to me. x)
sadie wrote: And I believe that if Kurt hadn't died, Nirvana would have broken up in a bit.
I think so too.
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by S0undGardener »

I remember from the biography of Nirvana that
Kurt was so despotive when it comes to writing new songs that Chris and Dave were
forced to stay in his shadow... but they didn't complain because they really liked his stuff.
In Utero was (from what I remember) the only album where Dave and Chris had some imput (even Kurt appreciated their contribution).
So to answering the question - no, Kurt wasnt holding Dave back, because everbody knew their role and felt comfotable with it. Also I'm sure that Dave's creativity wasnt that big at the beginning and it developed later, so the band broke up in right moment for him.
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by boxcar »

S0undGardener wrote: Kurt was so despotive when it comes to writing new songs that Chris and Dave were
forced to stay in his shadow... but they didn't complain because they really liked his stuff.
So in a way, yes he was holding Dave back but Dave didn't complain because he had it good.
S0undGardener wrote:So to answering the question - no, Kurt wasn't holding Dave back, because everybody knew their role and felt comfortable with it. Also I'm sure that Dave's creativity wasn't that big at the beginning and it developed later, so the band broke up in right moment for him.
Dave had pretty much the entire Foo Album ready to go by the time Kurt died plus put out Late! Pocketwatch. Had they not broke up when they did maybe he would have been held back and never did much with his music. It's funny because if you think about it, Kurt held him back but helped him at the same time.
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by sappy84 »

Kurt let Dave record and release Marigold what do you think ;)
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by boxcar »

sappy84 wrote:Kurt let Dave record and release Marigold what do you think ;)
Good point :)
Though I think if Kurt had to "let" Dave release a song he might have been holding him back a bit. ;)
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by sappy84 »

boxcar wrote:
sappy84 wrote:Kurt let Dave record and release Marigold what do you think ;)
Good point :)
Though I think if Kurt had to "let" Dave release a song he might have been holding him back a bit. ;)
Well maybe let was the wrong word Kurt said he liked the song and Dave wrote the riff to Scentless Apprentice :)
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by boxcar »

sappy84 wrote:
boxcar wrote:
sappy84 wrote:Kurt let Dave record and release Marigold what do you think ;)
Good point :)
Though I think if Kurt had to "let" Dave release a song he might have been holding him back a bit. ;)
Well maybe let was the wrong word Kurt said he liked the song and Dave wrote the riff to Scentless Apprentice :)
True, but at first Kurt thought the riff to be "bonehead" but then as they played it more he decided he liked it.
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Re: Was Kurt holding Dave back?

Post by sappy84 »

boxcar wrote:
sappy84 wrote: Well maybe let was the wrong word Kurt said he liked the song and Dave wrote the riff to Scentless Apprentice :)
True, but at first Kurt thought the riff to be "bonehead" but then as they played it more he decided he liked it.
I don't think the Foo's are anywhere near as good as Nirvana were but It's good that he was able to move on. Wasn't pocketwatch done while he was in Nirvana?
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